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Skywatching Bears

Owen proposed recording the position of the sun/moon in different locations on earth to check if the normal data is accurate

Started by UrsaDelta in Skywatching Bears 3 days ago

If you'd like to do something like that, mention that here. And maybe how you'd go about it

I would suppose recording time of sunrise/sunset at a given latitude and longitude would be one way to go. Then after a lot of data is available from many places on different days, comparing those numbers to the supposed normal data would be simple.

Mentioned just now live at the beginning of
#997 Amazing pizza, yin and yang, and a family member faces deportation

I am confident the alleged normal data  will check out. The flat earth model works well in the northern hemisphere  but not in the southern hemisphere. Here today , in the north island of New Zealand , the sun is visible 14 hours of the day (as per normal data).. next month it will be 15 hours .. and next month in the south island it will be 15hours 45minutes
3 days ago

Thanks @ursadelta  and @not-quite-a-bear.

Yeah, I think Owen has a good idea. I'd like to be part of something like that.


On another topic, last week or so, in the South Island of NZ, both sun and moon were sharing the day for a while (i.e. moon was visible during the day and therefore no moon at night).


But the 'satelites' were still apparent throughout the whole night. According to globe-theory, what was illuminating them? Wouldn't they have been in the shadow of a big, spinning ball, with no light source bring able to reflect off them?


Hey, @not-quite-a-bear , what is it about the southern hemisphere, so to speak - you know what I mean - that makes the flat-earth model work less well? I'm not doubting you. I just wonder what specific point you are referring to?


Another topic: I refreshed my "find the direction south" skills using the Southern Cross constellation from different times and positions in the sky. And, yes, it works, of course

3 days ago

@not-quite-a-bear I also think it will check out (within a certain amount of slippage, there may be some surprises). I've spent time in multiple timezones and latitudes in NA/EU/Asia, and whenever I lookup sunrise/sunset data, it appears accurate. But I've never tried to get specific data and then see how accurate it really is. Even if the data gathered supports the conventional norms, that's still good to know.

As far as data gathering, I can set up a google form where you can input data, stored on google docs spreadsheet. Each submission could be set up as a form page such as:

-----------------------------------------------

(Select 1) Sunrise Sunset Moonrise Moonset

Latitude of observer ________

Longitude of observer ________

Method used to record latitude/longitude ________

Date ________

Hour:minute:(second if you can swing it?) that the sun/moon is seen to begin rising or finish setting ________

-----------------------------------------------

It's not necessary to record every day but the more data the better. Atmospheric conditions may make it impossible to measure on some days anyway.

A common definition of sunrise/etc is however necessary. I suppose we could use the one defined by the US Navy:

Sunrise and sunset conventionally refer to the times when the upper edge of the disk of the Sun is on the horizon. Atmospheric conditions are assumed to be average, and the location is in a level region on the Earth's surface.

Moonrise and moonset times are computed for exactly the same circumstances as for sunrise and sunset. However, moonrise and moonset may occur at any time of day and, consequently, it is often possible for the Moon to be seen during daylight, and to have moonless nights. It is also possible that a moonrise or moonset does not occur relative to a specific place on a given date.

https://archive.is/WIBI#selection-401.0-411.358

You can estimate around what time you should observe for the rising or setting here: https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224689365


Let me know if this looks good or if there's anything that should be changed, and I'll make the form, procedure and definitions more clear.

2 days ago

Thanks, @ursadelta  

Such a Google doc form as you propose looks good to me. I'd like to participate. I'm in hilly, mountainous territory, and am overshadowed by heights. It's hard to gauge an actual horizon, sometimes.

I have looked at https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224689365, noting the DST (Daylight Saving Time) option, so I can refer to this useful tool for when to be on the lookout for a rising/setting.


NZ (like Chile) is a long, thin country orientated north to south, edging towards the south pole. Days are noticably longer in the south of NZ than the north of NZ during Summer. Longer twilights the further south one goes!

2 days ago
So I was wondering. Pertaining to flat earth proof. Sundials work because the position of the sun. Correct?. Therefore can it not be used to verify that the earth is not spinning but stationary albeit flat. If the earth was a rotating globe then the sundial would not be an accurate way to determine the time of day. Right?. Basing this off the DIRTH sunset video on the stream yesterday morning. Since the sun is the only object moving it would mean that this realm or at least what we can see thus far is indeed flat. I don't really know for sure but was just wondering about the sundial thing. I have also seen survival shows where someone uses a stick in the ground to determine the movement of the sun and not the earth. I honestly am not sure if us humans are meant to truly know. Perhaps I am wrong, it has happened before. Just a query. 
2 days ago

G'day  @beehive-bear ... Beehive? What, are you a politician?.   What I was specifically referring to was the hours of light visible in the southern hemisphere summer. The FE model with the north pole at it's centre and the sun circling the north pole works with the southern hemisphere winter and corresponding northern hemisphere summer. And with a widening arc till late December, it also works with the northern hemisphere winter . But the key factor to this model is the sun is very close to the earth. The fact that you in the south island can see the sun for nearly 2/3 of the day at the peak of summer is impossible with this model.  

BB calls it a realm because there are a couple of things that don't add up...probably why he suggested checking sun locations.  Another is the stars. We can see that southern cross year round but we'll never see the sky clock from here.

I don't understand satellites at night either. I was asking that question 40 years ago ..But those space x satellite trains that you mentioned. I peeked in that rabbit hole .. it is scary stuff

2 days ago

Thanks, @not-quite-a-bear. I understood the two points you made. You explained them very well: we're seeing 2/3rds of daylight in summer down south here; and we don't see the skyclock from down here.

Yes, I go with 'realm', too.

Hi, @NativeAsianBear , the sun-dial thIng is a bit too hard for my brain. If you can work it out, I'd love to know!

No, I'm not a politician, @not-quite-a-bear ! Perhaps a termites'-nest would have been a more appropriate design for our parliament buildings?


1 day ago